The Winding Road to Finding Your Spot in the Music Business with Shawn Chambliss

Casey Combest: Hey everyone! Welcome to the Blue Sky Studios Podcast, where we talk with real people who are doing stuff with music. So today doing stuff is songwriting, production, etcetera with my friend, Sean Chambliss here. Sean, welcome to the show. 

Shawn Chambliss: Hey man. So glad to be here. Excited to be a part. 

Casey Combest: Absolutely. Sean, you were telling me a really interesting story from fellow Mississippian Hardy. That you heard an award show the other day let's, let's start there and we'll kind of go back to who you are and what you do. 

Shawn Chambliss: Yeah. So my wife and I, we got invited by ASCAP to go to The Ryman for the ACM honors, the Academy of Country Music, uh, Honors that's, it's a precursor, their big award show and they gave out the songwriter of the year, his first Michael Hardy's, uh, first songwriter of the year. And as he was accepting his award, he. Gave a word of advice to all the songwriters, uh, in the room. And he'll be watching, uh, on Fox later when they air that. And he said, "Never quit. Whatever you're doing just don't quit. Because he said in, in 2015, he was playing this round at the Floribama. And on the round, there was no- nobody had a hit, nobody had anything really going for 'em.

And there was a tip jar on the front of the stage. He said at the end of the night, there was $5 and a napkin that said, "Quit". He held up his award and he said, tonight, this thing's going right next to that napkin. He had kept it since 2015 as like a, a giant like, Hey, I'll show you or something. 

Casey Combest: That's awesome. Really inspiring stuff. 

Shawn Chambliss: Inspiring. And also just showed me how competitive he was. Yeah. He's already like my favorite songwriter right now. But to see that I'm like, okay, so there is this level of, of competition. Not necessarily with other songwriters, but just like the expectation of others. 

Casey Combest: Yeah. I, I remember hearing, uh, A Rock by him and, uh, I was like, oh, this is a great song. And then I went and watched the music video, mm-hmm and just like cried so much. I was like, what a, uh, interesting. I feel like he's so good at like twisting or maybe not twistings the right word, but taking a word and writing around it. And just a really powerful songwriter from Philadelphia, I believe. Is that right? Philadelphia? 

Shawn Chambliss: I believe him and Marty. 

Casey Combest: So, well, Sean, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, who you are. Uh, I know you've had a lot of experiences in a lot of different areas of music, so, uh, yeah. Give us that little tour de Sean. 

Shawn Chambliss: Yeah. Uh, my name's Sean Chambliss. I'm from Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and, uh, I'm a singer/ songwriter.

I consider myself a singer/ songwriter first and foremost, but I have an artist project. The DLX that toured and opened up for some bigger acts like XM Masters and JohnnySwim. I'm a worship leader. Uh, on most Sundays, um, I work in operations and as a live audio engineer for production company, we do concerts, weddings, events all across the Southeast.

And now with, uh, the, the songwriting I'm writing for, for pop for country for a little bit. R and B sometimes. Um, and then some sync stuff or like commercials and movies and different things like that. I, I feel. Someone joked to me that once I pick a thing that I want to do, I have to dive into every aspect of that thing.

And I feel like I'm, I'm getting to the point where I can speak almost every language for every role associated with music, both live in the studio and the writer's room and different stuff like that. And I don't know that makes me feel comfortable and good to be able to translate and communicate with everybody I get to interact with. 

Casey Combest: Right. And that's not something that most artists could do. Uh, if they're on the stage, they might not understand how front of house works mm-hmm or how to craft a live show or things like that. How, how has that been an advantage to be able to touch all those different pieces of music efficiency?

Shawn Chambliss: I feel like is the, is the biggest thing. I always joke that efficiency is a love language of mine. And when you can, when you have an idea or you have a goal or desire, and you can effectively tell that or communicate that to a person or a. That's gonna help you accomplish that goal, whether that's your live show or the way you're crafting a song or whatever, the more effectively you can communicate that to the people who are gonna help you do that, then you get to the product faster.

There's less frustration. Uh, you get to turn around the product faster. And when it comes to music, you get to share that product with a, with a, an audience with your. Audience faster 

and, and your, your start to where you're you landed today, and we're gonna get to that. And deep dive a little bit more about songwriting is kind of similar to how I started.

I tried a bunch of different things early on, and I, I feel like anytime I talk to someone in their teens, who's curious about music. Uh, I encourage them. No matter what field they're wanting to go in to try all those different parts. Because so many times we have an assumption about, I want to be a blank or I feel like this is what I want to do.

And then you actually get there and you're like, wow, this looks a lot different. Like the day to day than what I thought it would be. Um, so I, I definitely appreciate that. What advice would you give to someone younger who may feel discouraged? Cuz I think there is the. The hidden side of bouncing around to a lot of different things and you kind of get discouraged.

You're like, I'm not making massive progress on one of these things. So what, what would you tell to somebody who is kind of bouncing around? They still hadn't found that niche for them just yet. I would 

say talk to as many people. Who are already doing the thing that you think you want to do, because they've been there.

They've experienced that, especially the higher levels of the thing that you're experiencing. They're gonna be able to tell you little nuggets and little things and aspects that you haven't experienced yet, and that you can take into account either be either. That will either encourage you to continue down that path or it'll say, oh, I didn't know that that was involved.

I need to shift a little bit. I need to move this away over here. Uh, I think that any time that you can look to someone who's already been there or done that in some semblance way, form or fashion, it's just for your benefit, it's gonna help everything run more smoothly. It's gonna help you feel like you're wasting less time that.

Doing it like thinking about doing it is not the same as doing it and you have to actually get up and, and do the thing because I can, I am the biggest, I'm the worst at this sometimes of thinking and planning so much to the point where I like I've been thinking and planning about this song for two days.

Why don't I just sit down, try and write, right? Yeah. 

That's awesome. As you guys heard, Sean has done a whole lot of different things and I've had the, uh, privilege of getting to see you do all these things over the years. Talk us through how you've landed on songwriting, cuz it does feel like you've been more, uh, concentrated and focused on songwriting the last few years than anything I've seen you do.

Mm-hmm in the last, I guess 10 of knowing you. Yeah. 

So I started off thinking that I wanted to be an artist and just an artist. So I said, this is the way to do it. This is how I get to. Do music for a living and like, have it pay my bills. I've said, that's what I'm gonna do is be an artist. And as I started to, to go down that path, there were obstacles, roadblocks, uh, honestly, unknown things.

And I didn't have. Access, or I didn't think I had access at the time to other artists doing it at the level that I wanted to do to try and pick their brains and do this thing. And so there were very, there were moments, months, even a year or two of, of discouragement and unknown and not understanding what I wanted to do.

And I had gotten into more of the live production things and helping out with that. And in the midst of one of these kind of downturn moments, I had submitted some songs to a songwriting competition. I found out that I got second place in the songwriting competition. Part of it was coming up to Nashville and doing a songwriters round and got to interact with these people who were writing not only for themselves, but for other people.

And I was vaguely aware that that was a thing. And that was a possibility and something that people did, but to see it tangibly is like, oh yeah, we write every single day, sometimes twice, three times a day for ourselves for trying to pitch the songs to other people. And for a, a guy who at the time was doing pop music.

But grew up getting paid in country music, cassette tapes, and just soaked in Billy Ray Cyrus and Garth Brooks and Brooks and Dunn and all that stuff that was like, wow, that's really appealing. I, I want to do that. And then to, as I was getting older, uh, I met my wife and go, oh, a songwriter's lifestyle seems way more conducive to, to a family than an artist, lifestyle touring and doing all this and being on the road and, and grinding late nights and stuff like.

I was like this, this is what I wanna do is the songwriter thing. And I still have an artist thing. I still love doing that, but I think. Just through the, the trials and failures and shifting of pathways and whatnot. I was able to say, Hey, music is the thing I want to do. And this is the way I can do it.

That fits in with the lifestyle that I want. That's cool, 

man. Uh, Early on. I listened to a guy, Dan Miller a lot, and he talked about, uh, the three legged stool of deciding what you wanna do in life. It needs to fit your economic model. Uh, it needs to be something you're passionate about and something you're good at.

And I feel like what you just described, like you had to kind of balance. Again, going back to my story, very similar. Like I had to kind of bounce around a bit until I found that because mm-hmm , there were so many things that I loved to do that either wouldn't pay the bills or take care of that lifestyle that I would like to have, you know, the yachts mm-hmm that I have the multiple yachts , um, you know, there, there are things that you, you kinda work through as you're younger and, and growing up and, and you continue to work through.

So that's, that's really exciting, Sean. Well, what is, uh, give us like songwriting crash course for those who are listening. So many people I talked to come in the studio they've written great songs. And then when we begin talking about, Hey, what have you read about songwriting? Or have you done any courses mm-hmm or that kind of thing?

There's, there's rarely, uh, an answer there, which is completely fine, cuz they've still written great songs. Mm-hmm but I think having some type of foundation is, is so helpful. So you can do a 1, 2, 3, or you fill in the blanks. However you want to answer that question, but give us a little crash course of song.

I think the overview goes back to a thing that we were talking about before we started recording is like, it's not who it's not, who has the best story it's who can tell the story the best and. That's a thing that my wife says with, with some of her clients, but for songs, I think it's even more important.

You take speaking of Hardy, Hardy and Laney, Wilson's newest song, uh, waiting the truck phenomenal. I listen to it five times a day. You break down the actual story and the story's kind of ridiculous. The story is for those who haven't heard, it's a story song about a guy who basically finds. Is driving through a random town.

He's working through finds this woman, uh, on the road and she's been beaten up and he goes, and he kills the person who was beating her up. And you look at that on paper and you're like, why would you just randomly jump to like, killing the strange, like, it's a ridiculous story. It's something you would see in like a tabloid or lifetime movie or in yeah.

But the way that it's told you're just drawn in and you're like, oh yeah, I can see the details. I can. I. Picture myself watching this thing. And it's that, that crafting of the story that's so important. And I think. Songwriting. I know I can get hung up on like, oh, this idea's not good enough. Like, I need to think of something better.

This can't be a song. This can't be whatever. But when you realize it's not necessarily how good that idea is, but it's, how can I attack this idea the best way? How can I draw people into this idea? Because if you had the idea and you're like, oh, I wanna write a song about this. You find it captivating.

It's how can I tell it in a way that's also captivating for other people? That's a thing. Really drawn. To even when I'm not writing country music, I go back and reference a lot of like country music because the emphasis on the lyric and the story, uh, the word play, the flips and lyrics and stuff is so interesting that if you're able to draw those techniques into pop into R and B into hip, hip hop and stuff, then you've gone one step above everybody else.

Who's there. But the biggest thing, and I hate when people say it, but it's so true is you have to do it. You have to just keep writing because I will write four or five bad songs a week and two or three great songs a week. And I can always go back and try and rewrite or fix or edit those songs that I didn't think were as good, but I can't go back and edit them and do that thing.

If I didn't write them. and I don't know that I would've gotten to those good songs. Had I not written the four or five okay. Songs. And my favorite thing that I think people in Mississippi, I know people in Mississippi don't take advantage of is co-writing. It was a thing that I did not get into really until I started going to Nashville and spending like an abundant amount of time.

There is. That's a cheat code to go in and to have say you, you wrote half a song, you just can't get there. You don't know what the rest of it is to have somebody else in the room. Who's. They don't have a block. You're like, I got this first version, this chorus, but I don't know where to go here. And they're like, oh, why don't we go here?

Why don't we do this to have different brains in the room? Uh, it doesn't lessen the art. It doesn't lessen or cheapen the song. You're still an artist for having other people in there. Uh, but you can get there faster and they might have better ideas than what came outta your brain. It's uh, I, I think those are the, the big things with songwriting is, is doing it, not being afraid of co-writing and, and figuring out the best way to tell that story about a concept or an idea that captivates you, because if it captivates you, it can captivate other people.

And great 

Casey Combest: advice, Sean, and, and let's, let's dive a little deeper into co-writing. So, uh, someone listening, I think, uh, first decision, like ask someone to co-write mm-hmm so that's a simple one. You can do just, Hey, do you wanna co-write either virtually or in person give us some dos and don'ts cuz I've had some sessions that were really fun and productive and then I've had some that were not helpful and not fun.

Shawn Chambliss: I think the biggest thing is figuring out how to turn off your filter because we're so. Worried about what other people in the room or in life think about us, that when you get into a writer's room, you need to be at a certain level of vulnerability and being able to say your thoughts unfiltered, because the more you're trying to auto filter in your head, that's more time.

It takes you to get to that idea and to say it out loud when. Unfinished or incomplete or maybe even wrong idea. If you said it out loud, the other person in the room, would've been like, oh, I know what you're trying to say here. Why don't we say it like this? And so that it probably took me. Close to a year to really feel like I was able to turn off my filter and just spout things out and to say things, uh, some people go into rooms, you'll have to figure out your specific style for the, for, for walk into rooms.

Some people go in with nothing. I have to go in with ideas. So I have my notes full of song titles, uh, try and like wordplay things or, um, maybe even a whole verse or a verse chorus or something like. Because when you do these co-writes, whether it's someone you write with a lot or someone you just met or never met, they might come in hungover.

They might come in tired. They might come in right on the ball caffeinated, ready to go, and you don't know what to expect. So you've got to expect that all the ideas are gonna be flowing or that you have to bring all the ideas and then let them contribute where you have blocks and stuff like that. But.

I think prepping, being able to not filter, figuring out your style in the room, because a lot of times when you get in these rooms, Two, three people in a room and you might have one person who is a little more adept at melody. And some people who are a little more, uh, focused on the, the actual lyric. And then you have someone who's more focused on the music and you have some people who are kind of blend those lines and stuff.

Uh, but pairing up kind of based on strengths is a good way to do it too. Uh, sometimes. But don't let that be a hard and fast rule because sometimes I can get in rooms, cuz I consider myself more on the lyric melody side of things. I can give input on the musical side of things, but it's not necessarily my strong suit.

And so a lot of times I'll try and pair myself with someone who is more melodic and then maybe a producer's just focus on the music on the track. Uh, but sometimes if there's another lyric melody person in the room, We can hit it off and just, we have a great day and we come up with the best song ever.

So it it's a lot of trial and error and a lot of doing it a lot that, gosh, I really, the re people say, yeah, doing the, doing the rep thing, keep writing, keep doing the thing. But like last year, for example, I spent almost every other in Nashville and I. Two times a day, let's say two times a day, two weeks, a month in Nashville, cranking out songs, cranking out some good songs, a lot of bad songs, but figuring out the types of people.

I like to be in the room with the types of people who I didn't need to be in the room with. Sometimes I really like the person, but we don't do well in the room together. And you have to figure that out. You don't know a lot of times until you sit down in the room and try 

Casey Combest: it. Right. It's fascinating.

Let's let's go to the 3.00 songwriting. So let's just say someone and, and we're not giving you a step by step process here, guys, but let's just walk through, like, you've asked somebody to co-write you wrote this song together, or you either just wrote a great song. What do you do then, Sean? Like, what is the next steps or your options as a writer, you 

Shawn Chambliss: start playing that song out at like writer's rounds and stuff.

We don't do as many in Mississippi, although recently, I mean, within the past, Two weeks of this recording. I saw advertisements for a writers around, uh, in fondant at the bean. And then I played a writer around in Clinton, Mississippi. So I'm hoping there's gonna be a little more prominence there of like people being able to go out and say, Hey, I'm not necessarily trying to be an artist, but here's some songs I've written with the idea of in Nashville, you see it where people will go play writers rounds, and there are artists sitting in the audience and they'll come up.

Look at the early stories of Garth Brooks and, uh, some of George Strait and stuff like that. They were sitting in Bluebird cafe or sitting at these different rounds. And after the round, they're like, Hey, does anybody cut that song? Does anybody want that? Cuz I want that song. So getting out, trying to play those songs in front of people and then establishing relationships and rapport with artists that you think would be a good fit for.

Artists publishers a andrs, uh, you can go online, go on Facebook and, or not Facebook, Instagram, I guess you could do Facebook too, but Instagram's probably where I have found the most success find these, uh, publishing companies and, and that you think have artists or writers in the same vein as what. The that song, that really great song that you have, and look at who they're following, look at, who they have tagged and reach out to a DM.

The, the great thing about Nashville in particular. And I'm, I'm saying that because that's our closest big, big music hub is almost everybody at any level from head of a publishing company to the lowest, a and R who's just covering people's calendars will let you take 'em out for coffee. You shoot. 'em a DM start commenting on their stuff and every.

Relationship. I have in Nashville, every artist, every publisher, uh, every P R O representative, it all came from. I can trace it back to three ARS that were of the lowest level. When I met them, I just took 'em out for coffee, took 'em out for a drink or something. And they were like, oh, you should meet. So andSo you should meet.

So, and so let me set you up on this, right. Let, let me do this. And now. I have a, there are people in who live in Nashville who make the joke that I know more people in that town than they do. because if you put a part of your brain and focus on, like, yes, you gotta have a part that's focused on writing the best song, figuring out what the career looks like, but then also section off the part of your brain to make relationships because.

Songwriting is just like every other industry relationships matter and taking the time to step outta your comfort zone and be like, Hey, can I go, go get a coffee with you? Can I buy you a meal? Can I go get breakfast or something? Especially breakfast coffees. A lot of people aren't doing stuff in the morning or they, they, they have the time to spare before the day gets started to go to a 30, 45 minute coffee or something.

And you can take that and. Develop that relationship to get your songs placed, where they, they need to be. And then the more you're writing with artists. So if I'm in a room, the most efficient way to get a cut is to make sure that co-writing room you're in, there's an artist in that room. And some people take a hard line approach and they will try and only write if there's an artist in the room, because then it has the direct pathway.

You don't have to do that. And I, I feel like sometimes that hard line approach kind of boxes you in, uh, because if you're making the relationships, if you're developing relationships with these, uh, with publishers, with labels, with a andrs with different things like that, if it's a good song, they're gonna try and find a home for it.

And right now, Is a good time because you're seeing some advocacy from publishers and labels come out and say, Hey, artists need to take more outside songs. Like you don't have to write every single song that's on your album. We've I think we've, we ran into a, a backlog a little bit during COVID because all the artists who are usually touring and cutting outside songs had time to write their own songs back at home.

Well, now most of those people have put out those albums and they don't have time anymore. They're touring on their radio and. There's plenty of opportunities and stuff. You just, you gotta get out there and meet people, send a lot of DMS. Don't be annoying with it, but be persistent. 

Casey Combest: It sounds like just putting yourself out there, being bold, being brave to, to do that.

Cuz those things are scary. What if someone says no, what if they don't respond? Those are things you have to kind of 

Shawn Chambliss: work through and that's a big thing is figuring out the worst thing that can happen is they don't respond. Or 

Casey Combest: they say, no. Yeah. Nobody's gonna murder you in your sleep for asking them to have coughing.

Shawn Chambliss: absolutely. I've gotten so many non responses. It's not even funny. Like that could be discouraging, but I'm like, oh, they said no, but then so, and so said, yes, I'm gonna take them out for coffee. And then. It's so funny that within probably a year, say I send out five or six messages. Two people say yes, they wanna go for coffee within a year.

Those two people end up introducing me to the three people who didn't respond or said no or something. And so to see it comes back around and that, that part's hard for me because I'm not a natural extrovert. I consider myself, I think Ken Kamar coined the term for me, a trained extrovert. So. If you are nationally an extrovert, you've got another cheat coat, because if you just keep putting yourself out there, you'll find opportunity.

People are just waiting. For you, honestly, they're waiting for you to sit them down and to give you that opportunity. Yeah. 

Casey Combest: And Sean, as we get close to closing up today, I I'd love to ask you a little bit about the show, the live show mm-hmm you've had the distinct advantage of getting to see so many shows either from something that you were doing on stage or either.

Back of house front of house. Excuse me. sorry. My terms are off. Uh, walk us through, what do you, what do you feel like makes a good show and, and I wanted to define that a little bit. I don't mean energetic. I don't mean crazy entertaining. I mean, what engages an audience? 

Shawn Chambliss: I think what engages an audience is a show built for the audience.

Like when you're building a show, you're not building a show for you as an artist, you're building a show that people get to come and they have an experience, uh, everything from the, the lights, the sound, the, the, the stage antics and, and stage thing down to the. The lyric and the song and how the arrangement of the song.

If you wanna do a new arrangement, say you have a recording of a song and you're like, this is great. I would love to John Bellion is probably the best at this. All of his arrangements live are different than the album because he's like, you've already got the album. If you want the album, you can go listen to the album.

But when you come to this live show, I want to give you something that you're only gonna get here. And I think that looks different for every genre, but there's still. That thing that you can exploit. Uh, there's a song that I wrote that we're trying to get cut right now. Actually you've heard it's called a meet a girl and it's, it's a story song and the recording of it, the demo.

It it's this cool, like Thomas ready, like country song. But when I play it live for like songwriters rounds, I'll slow down when it gets to certain lines or certain lyrics and stuff to really emphasize like, Hey, if you haven't been listening, this is the part you need to listen into. And it's so interesting just in, uh, a slowing down or a breaking down of the arrangement for those couple lines to see a crowd that was maybe slightly distracted to focus in for that second.

Understand that every decision you're making for that live show, no matter what your budget is, it is a show for that audience. It's not a show for you. It's not like part of the show is the spotlight on you, but the spotlight's on you to entertain that crowd. And so figuring out what your target demographic, what your audience, the people that are gonna walk in their doors, what's going to keep them captivated.

What's going to. Engage them. And I don't think budget has to be a limitation there because it can literally be in how you're crafting your songs and how you're, uh, performing on stage. Are you moving around a little bit? Are you walking a little bit? Are you playing guitar? Are you not playing guitar for this song?

Uh, how, how can you keep that those people engaged and tuned in. I think that's the most basic way to put that we can dive into any sort of specific there, but, uh, overall that's the approach. 

Casey Combest: No, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Sean, I always love talking to you, man. Always feel inspired and ready to go create and do some cool stuff. So thanks for joining us today. Where can people find out more about you? 

Shawn Chambliss: All of my social media is, uh, the DLX under my artist name. So on Instagram, the DLX the dlx.net on Facebook. Twitter, LinkedIn, maybe. I don't know all of the different social media platforms. If you type in Sean Chambliss or T H E D L X. You're gonna find me and you'll follow along in, uh, the artist stuff, the songwriter stuff, being married, figuring that out. That's- 

Casey Combest: You don't have it figured out man? Come on. (laughs)

Shawn Chambliss: Dude. I don't know that I'll ever figure it out and I love that part.

Casey Combest: Alright Sean, thanks again for your time, man. 

Shawn Chambliss: Absolutely. 

Casey Combest: Well, thank you guys so much for listening to another episode of the Blue Sky Studios Podcast. Have a great day, everyone.