The Three Biggest Concerns Songwriters Have About the Recording Process

Carissa McNair: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of Blue Sky Studios Podcast. I am here with none other than Casey Combest, and we're gonna kind of do something a little different today. We are gonna be tackling three of the biggest concerns songwriters have about the recording process, so I hope you're ready. Hey, Casey!

Casey Combest: Hey, Carissa, how's it going?

Carissa McNair: Going good. Going good. So we're excited about this episode today because we are gonna be talking about the three biggest concerns that songwriters have about the recording process, and those concerns are pricing and cost. Finding the best studio and what is the process actually like?

Casey Combest: That's right. I love when people say "We're excited today", but they say it really calmly like you just did. Like, we're excited today. Be excited for us.

Carissa McNair: (turns up the volume) I'm excited! So this is excited. Are you excited?

Casey Combest: That was scary that you, you pushed it over the edge, but absolutely. These are important questions and their questions that both you and I have had. Your first time recording outta studio was here. I grew up on the coast of Mississippi and so I recorded a lot of different studios and a lot of these questions we're gonna talk about today are from my experience of just kind of not knowing. And at the time when I first recorded, this is how old I am, the internet didn't, didn't exist.

Wow. So I know I am Wow. . So, you know, finding answer to these questions were pretty difficult. And so I had to ask friends or the person I was working with, which you. You just don't never know. And so it was hard to find good information. So hopefully this will be a good solution for folks watching or listening.

Yeah. Okay. So let's

Carissa McNair: get started with the first big concern, which is pricing and cost. And so like you said, my first recording experience was here at Blue Sky and pricing and cost was the very first hurdle that we kind of had to conquer and discuss and figure out before we even got.

Casey Combest: That's right. And when we are looking at the way that studios charge, you're typically gonna see three rates, the hourly, a block of time, and then flat rate.

The way the hourly would work is pretty straightforward. You pay a set amount of money that the studio has determined that their hourly rate is. For whatever services you want, you pay that money and then you leave. So it's sort of trans, a little more of a transactional style. The block of time, which we don't do that here at Blue Sky, but a lot of times you'll see bigger studios that are just spaces.

They don't necessarily have staff producers. Right. But they're just a. A really nice space. They might have a day rate or something like that. And in that situation, it's similar to hourly, but you would be there for, you know, a big amount of time with the engineer or if you're bringing your own engineer, that kind of thing.

And then the third, the flat rate, that's a. , probably 70% of what we do here at the studio. And that's really a start to finish solution. So that allows the producer or engineer to work at different phases of the song, but it's all included. So there's no clock on the wall that you're watching or something like that.

And so yeah, that kind of helps answers how, how studios charge.

Carissa McNair: Mm-hmm. . So how do artists know? if flat rate or hourly rates are gonna work best

Casey Combest: for them. Yeah. You know, it's, it really is case by case. Typically I say that if you wanna do hourly, the best reason for wanting to do hourly is because your arrangement is really simple like p and o and vocals or guitar and vocals, or you've been playing with a band for a very long time.

You guys are tight. You're used to playing together. You've rehearsed these songs and played 'em live a ton. And you can come in and, and, and lay those songs down. Hourly's gonna be a better fit in that situ. Flat rate is gonna be better if you want what we would call a more produced product. So if you're trying to really see what a song could be, if you want to add studio musicians, if you wanna make sure that you're not cutting any corners that flat rate's gonna be a better

Carissa McNair: rate for you, right?

Yeah. And I mean, for me, in my experience, You know, I was totally new at this and I knew I needed a lot of help and assistance. It was just me. I was so low, so flat rate was definitely the best way to go, and it was definitely the most bang for my buck. Okay. So how much does it cost to record?

Casey Combest: Yeah, so every studio is a little different.

It really. Kind of goes back to looking at it in two different ways. So if you're working, let's, let's address the hourly first. And so really the factor there is how prepared you are as an artist. Do you have your chord charts done? Do you have the song finished? I remember when I first recorded a song, I went in and it was like 50% done.

I tried to write in the studio. Mm-hmm. Garner. The days of writing in the studio, it's too costly. So don't, don't do that. So how prepared. And then on the hourly side, how many layers do you wanna add? Do you want it to be multiple guitars or multiple synths, or do you want it to be something really simple?

So that's sort of the big factors there. I will say, just as a warning if you work somewhere else we, we try to remind artists of this if they choose hourly. But the little dirty secret that I always remind people that studios will do, and this happened to me, is they, an engineer might say, Hey, yeah, we can knock out a, you know, a few songs in an hour, da, da da da da, which never happens.

It takes a very long time to record in the studio. Yeah. You can rehearse 10 songs in an hour. That's not how the studio time works. You're under the microscope, you've, you're hearing things, nuances you've never heard before. Mm-hmm. . But the dirty little secret that a lot of studios won't tell you is they're gonna need a lot of time on the back.

to edit that song, to mix that song, to get that song ready. And we try to tell people if they choose hourly, like, Hey, you know, for every hour we're in here, give us some time on the backside to get it right. Once we're mixing. Now on the flat rate side, that's the whole benefit of that, of how much does it actually cost to record, you know, that up front.

Now another dirty little secret, learning this the hard way myself because I had worked. Producer and then I found out my friend worked with that same producer at a very different rate, and I was a little upset about that. Mm-hmm. . And so that's one of the reasons we post our current pricing online.

Now that changes from time to time. We typically every year we'll do some type of rate increase or adjustment to what we're offering, but find out what the rate everyone's being charged is, because if not that producer, Might charge you more if they don't like your genre, don't like you or don't like the song.

And so yeah. So there's, there's some thoughts on how much it costs to record

Carissa McNair: song. Okay. So here's kind of a big question. I'm ready. Is it really worth it to pay a studio to record my music? Can't I just do it myself?

Casey Combest: You can. You can. As well. You can do an appendectomy by yourself, , but I wouldn't recommend that, you know, it's not, not probably gonna be the best experience.

Certainly the, the two big reasons I would say to record yourself are one, if you think you might want to become an audio engineer or you have a strong desire to. Grow in that area of creativity, then record yourself. Cuz you're gonna learn a lot. And then the second reason is if you don't ever want to release it and I don't mean that like sarcastically, but I know a lot of people who have worked on their songs or a song for years and years because when it's at your house, when it's in your bedroom, when you're staring at it all the time, It's pretty easy to go in there and recut that vocal, but that's kind of the bad side of it too.

Right? You know, the good side, it's sort of like two sides of the coin. Like it's great, you can recut that vocal, but it's bad. You can keep recutting that vocal, which might not be any better. It just might be different. And so sure you can record yourself. But I would say the biggest benefit to working with a studio, whether that's just an engineering studio or a producing studio of like Blue Sky is it lets you as an artist operate in a really sweet.

When you're having a multitask, think about setting up your mics, thinking about setting up the compression ratios, your attack time, eq when you're having to think through all those things, it's hard to think about the lyrics you're gonna sing. It's hard to think about what you really wanna say in this song, or, Hey, is that vibe really right Or do I like this guitar part?

You're, because you're having to operate in that engineering mindset, and so it's really helpful to have someone to, to free you.

Carissa McNair: Yes. Just kinda let go and let you be able to just do the music. That's right. Awesome. Okay, so another really big question. What all does Blue Sky Studios do?

Casey Combest: So over the years when I first started a little over 10 years ago, we kind of did a little bit of everything.

We because we were just starting now, we, I honestly didn't know what my sweet spot was, nor did I know what our staff at the time Sweet Spot was. And so we did a lot of different things. But for now, what we've found is once the song is written, To getting ready to release. That's kind of where we live.

Mm-hmm. . So that includes pre-production, working on the song, the production, getting musicians in, getting the artist or the band in front of the microphones, editing, mixing, tuning. Chrissa here has been doing a wonderful job of tuning over the last year adding that extra sheen to the vocals where you don't.

Notice it's tuned, but it just sounds great. And then we work, we partner with a mastering engineer who masters all our songs so he knows what to look for. He knows what style music we do, that kind of thing. Now, that's where we end. We, I do know of some people who really enjoy that marketing side, and I like talking about marketing, but I've just not found that that that's really where we wanna live as a business, helping people to market their music.

Distribute their music and that kind of thing, because honestly, a lot of that is just really straightforward. And there's people who just do that better than us. So we've sort of taken the approach of, if you want a good steak, don't go to Walmart where you can get a fish and pole steak, a t-shirt, but go to a butcher shop.

And so we want to be. The proverbial butcher shop for recording studios where you can, this is getting weird, but you know what I'm saying? Like we wanna do what we do really

Carissa McNair: well. Yeah, absolutely. If you're gonna take away anything from this, take away the butcher

Casey Combest: shop part. . Yeah. We are not serial killers, I promise.

Carissa McNair: So let's talk through the second biggest concern that songwriters have, which is finding the best studio for them. Will I like what the end product sounds like and what if. , like the way the song turns out,

Casey Combest: and this is a common hesitation, and I think it's one honestly, Chrissa, that I knew early on, and it's why I wanted to start the studio because I never had really felt heard when I was recording with a lot of people.

And so I was like, man, I wanna start a studio where people are really heard, their opinions matter, their voice matters. And then went on a few years and I kind of forgot how big of a hesitation this is for so many people. Mm-hmm. I knew for you when we talked about doing your first project, you asked a lot of really good questions on the experience side of like, how do you handle feedback?

How do you guys deal with, you know, my opinions and that kind of thing. And honestly, your conversation was a big catalyst. You're like, ah, we've gotta remember how important that is to talk about that. Now we do that. But talking about it's important. So let me take a moment to just reassure you as the artist or the band who are thinking about working with us, we will listen to you.

I might tell you your idea's. Stupid. No, I'm just kidding. , I wouldn't do that. But we're, we're gonna take your ideas and we're gonna listen to 'em, but more importantly, we've created a process that gives you touchpoints along. So from the moment we first hear the song and start throwing out ideas, we're gonna ask strategic questions that help us to understand what you like, who you enjoy listening to as a, as a fan, as as someone who just enjoys music.

And then when we get studio musicians in, we've crafted that part of the experience so that you can listen to the drum part and say, yeah, I like that, or, Hmm, that's not it. And we're all gonna say, if you say, Hey, that's, , we're all gonna say, okay, cool. Let's find it. And we're gonna help you get there even when you don't know how to say it.

And so, absolutely. Your voice matters, your opinion matters, and you are gonna love the way it sounds because we've put checkpoints along the way so that we can stay in touch with what you're feeling. Absolutely. So

Carissa McNair: that kind of answers the next question. Ah, sorry. Roll over your question. Listen to my input as the songwriter and the artist.

And

Casey Combest: the answer is, we will not . Absolutely. Yeah. So we, you know, one of the words I like to use collaboration, like it's kind of an overused word today but I think it's a really honest word to describe the way we craft the experience here. It's collaborative. Even if I feel as a producer that, and, and Chris, I know this is true of you two, if we feel that option A is a better option, we're gonna tell you that and we're not gonna tell you that in a way that's like really brutal or me.

Oh yeah, no, yeah. We're just gonna say, Hey, we think this is the best route. And if you say, I don't, I don't wanna do that. Then we're gonna say, okay, no problem. And I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna write in my journal. I'm mad. I No, I'm just kidding. No, but, but we know two, two things. One, you're gonna enjoy that experience.

If you say, no, I don't wanna do that, or, that's a bad idea. Let's find something else. Like, cool, that's great. We, this is about you. This is a service business that we're Absolutely. And then secondly, Chrisa maybe a little more meta to this conversation so many times. An artist unique and familiar, which we'll talk about in a few minutes.

I have a feeling. Is really a reflection of what they've listened to and what they're, they know that their audience wants in the first place. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so when they say, Hey, I want this, they're usually right. Cuz even they we're looking through it as an in through an industry lens of like, Hey, here's what's current, here's what's happening.

You know, a, a part being different or a little direction shift. Like those things are, are certainly gonna be trusted with the artist.

Carissa McNair: Ab Absolutely. So, , how do you handle revision

Casey Combest: for feedback? Yeah, so once you get your first mix and again, we've had so many touchpoints along the way so that you are not surprised by anything, these are just the, the mixing process, the editing processes where we're taking everything, making it fit together better.

Bringing out the best ideas, cuz a lot of times we might throw three or four really cool ideas, but we've sort of gotta decide for the listener, like, Hey, here's the best idea. And doesn't mean those other two ideas wouldn't exist, but they're gonna be a little subdued so that we can highlight the really good moments, the best moments, kind of cutting, trimming the fat if we're using the butcher shop example.

Sorry, I don't know why it keeps kinda, he's so, he's telling you, I, I really am. But yeah, so once we send that first mix the artist or the band has an opportunity to review those songs and send in notes. Typically, it's turned this up, turn this down. Hey, do we have a different take for this part? That kind of thing.

We'll do another mix. We'll send that back to the artist, and usually by mix too. We're kind of there, there are occasions where it just takes a little longer and that's okay. . Okay.

Carissa McNair: So you kind of touched on this, but break it down. What is the process like?

Casey Combest: Sure. So now we do write sometimes with artists, but most of the time we're starting the song is 80% done or are complete.

So we're gonna do pre-production. During that phase of the process what we would do is think through things like, Hey, Does this song need to be in a hierarchy? Does it need to be slower? Does it need to be faster? Does it need to be a lower key? What are the influences that this artist has on their music?

Or hey, oh, what if we could do this? This is really cool right now, and this is current. During that pre-production, we're really begin to just set that trajectory for where the song, where the project can go. The second face of the process would be the actual production where we're bringing in studio musicians if needed.

We're getting the artist in front of the mic. We're beginning to track and really build. And that is such a fun process. And you've probably seen, if you haven't recorded before, but you've, you've probably seen what that's like on a show or a movie or something like that. And it really is a special time.

And during that time, we are again, having checkpoints along the way so that we know we're headed the right direction. And then the third would be what we would call post-production, or that would be the editing, mixing, mastering, where we're finalizing the track and really getting it ready for.

Awesome.

Carissa McNair: So how is the process different with hourly versus how it is with flat rate?

Casey Combest: That's a great question. I'm glad I wrote it. Yeah, did great. I did great. I did great. So it is a different process. One of the things I always say with hourly is the artist or the band is in the driver's seat. So you kind of have your foot on the pedal of like, Hey, I just wanna do two takes of this and move on, or, Hey, let's keep pushing here.

Let's find another guitar part or another keyboard part, or something like that. Or, Hey, let's add some background vocals. Where on the flat rate, it's not that we're a little more in the driver's seat, it's just we're in the driver's seat together. Like, Hey, let's, let's do this here, because at that point we're not risking your dollars because it's not the, the clock's not rolling.

So if, if we say, Hey, let's try an extra background vocal here, or a really ambient guitar part. There's no risk to you. You can say, no, I don't like that, and then we mute it. So the process is a little different, but it's it's more of how the process is driven along.

Carissa McNair: Okay. Okay. So what's the biggest difference between recording here at Blue Sky Studio or going to a big music producer in Nashville, New York, la.

Casey Combest: Yeah, we, I'm trying to think of something funny to say, but nothing's coming to mind. I feel like I had a joke I thought of when I wrote out this question. , should I wrote it down. We really do try to craft a really special experience here at Blue Sky. One of the things the really, one of the heart.

Points behind Blue Sky when I first started it is I saw so many friends go to big music cities. They paid a lot of money and oftentimes they mortgaged their house. Mm-hmm. , like did a second mortgage to pay for the project and were promised a lot of things. Mm-hmm. and rarely did those things come to fruition.

And some of those friends are still 10, 20 years later paying on those projects and. I, we really try to price things in a way that makes sense for somebody who lives in the southeast, outside of Nashville, New York, or la. But we do craft it in a way that's a really, really special experience.

Another nuance, and this kind of goes back to production oftentimes we've seen in big music cities when an artist who's not famous, they're not on a label, and they go to a big studio. , they're sort of hustled is the wrong way, wrong word, but they're sort of pushed through the studio, like the same musicians who played on the project yesterday and will play on the project tomorrow play on your project.

And so it's similar guitar parts, that kind of thing. They're, they're not really starting from scratch and really trying to hear the artist heart behind that. And that's not so much a knock against the big music cities. How they're working because they're, they're gonna give their time to the big label artist who they're trying to get Grammys and awards and things like, and that's awesome.

Like, that's not what we're about though. Like, we're here to serve artists and bands in a way that's, that makes the project meaningful and significant to them. So our agenda is not a big payday at the end or a Grammy or something like that, although, Pretty cool to, I mean, it could sit, I mean, it could look, it, it's

Carissa McNair: sit rough.

We got a place for it. It,

Casey Combest: it totally happened. We should just always leave that open as a reminder for where we wanna put a granny. So,

Carissa McNair: so all of this process and all kind of going into the minu of it, but how long does it take generally?

Casey Combest: Yeah. So it, it's different from every project and so much of it depends on someone's schedule, but typically a, a single might take, Couple weeks to finish.

That's from pre-production production and post-production. And then a bigger project, five to 10 songs might take a few months, but really it's up to the artists. We have some people who like taking a few vacation days and knocking off knocking out a lot of the recording. And if that's the case, then we can move a lot faster.

And then we have some people who, they're really busy. We're working with a couple teachers right now who their. pretty crazy. So we have to look for holidays or weekends or things like that, or, or just random off days that they have. So yeah, it, it depends. But yeah, few weeks to a few months. Okay.

Carissa McNair: Well I think that's all the questions that we're gonna cover in this episode today. We hope it was helpful and insightful, and we hope you just kind of get a little bit of who we are, what we're all about. So yeah. Thanks for talking, Casey.

Casey Combest: Absolutely. My pleasure, Carissa. Thanks for hosting and, and queuing up some good questions. Have a great day everyone.

Carissa McNair: See you next time.