Podcast with Jason Davis and Casey Combest

[00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Blue Sky Studios Podcast, where we speak with people in the music industry today. I want to welcome Jason Davis to the podcast. Jason, thanks so much for being with me. Jason, let's kick off with a win. I think I mentioned this a moment ago. My sister's going to be really proud cause she loves Dolly.

[00:00:21] Parton. So tell me about working with Dolly Parton's management. Incredible. I was a part of the company for about four years. I was a senior vice president. so it was kind of my job was to try to find talent and bring talent into the company that the management company could sign. And we ended up signing a couple of artists at time there, but it was just great.

[00:00:43] I mean, So in the inner circle of, of a living legend and, you know, just to be so in that inner circle and see how things operated at that kind of level was you know, it taught me a lot and some of the things I learned from [00:01:00] Danny who's her manager. I still, I still carry with me today. So what's up, what's one quick, like 32nd snippet that might surprise people about the inner workings of an operation.

[00:01:10] Like. I think anytime you get to a big level like that, man, you're that in the public eye, I think, you know, that the level of security that's needed would probably surprise most people. Just the thought that needs to go into everything, all the movements you're making and how you're traveling. And I think the security aspect of it would, would would be very intriguing to most people.

[00:01:34] And I think also. You know, just how prolific she's been throughout her career. I mean, she has. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of unreleased songs. And so, yeah, I think those would be some, some pretty cool things that and surprising thing. Yeah. That's awesome. Jason. Well, it sounds like you've lived a lot of days, even in this, this four years, man.

[00:01:56] I'll tell our listeners a little bit about what you do today and kind of [00:02:00] what led you to that moment. So primarily today I, I've always been very entrepreneurial. Th the main thing I do is manage artists and also develop artists. So I'm, I have a great passion for working with artists. I love working with artists that I've also developed as far as like management.

[00:02:17] So it's, it's cool to me in artists that's, you know, young, but has the potential more inexperienced or has the potential and the challenge of, you know, can they be coached up. Can they become great enough that the industry I on a larger level would become interested in this person. And when it, when it doesn't work, it's a bummer.

[00:02:39] But when it works, it is, it is pretty amazing to watch something go from like basically a seed of an idea. To a real harvest, you know, where you know, that ours has tons of fans and their success and my career career happens out of that. So but th th that's kind of the main, [00:03:00] main thing that I do. And I've kind of always done.

[00:03:02] Men will lead me to that is I started out as a business, as a songwriter and. I had a real passion for songwriting and I in the beginning of my career, I landed some songs on albums, but I much more so found out quickly that I had more of a passion to work with artists. I. You know, bands I was in and I was lead singer of bands and I was never great, but I, I played shows in the past and put out albums in the past as an artist.

[00:03:33] So once, once I kind of landed on working more with artists versus just writing, I. To be more exciting, trying to help somebody else have a success versus just myself had the success. Because if somebody else has a success that you've worked with, you do have a success, but somebody else wins with you.

[00:03:56] And th that to me was always a more exciting [00:04:00] idea than maybe just myself. No, I get that for sure. I started out songwriting and an, a little bit of an artist and it was like once I started working with other people in that production on the other side of the desk, I was like, oh, this is way more fun to like, bring their vision to life and kind of help them develop the idea.

[00:04:16] So I, I definitely get that. And how many years have you been in. This is my 23rd year. Wow. That's awesome, man. Yeah. So next January will be my 24th year doing it. So, and what's the name of your management company? Well, we have a company called a woman seven, which is more in mainstream, the mainstream side of things.

[00:04:35] And then we have a management company called Novo management, which is on the Christian side of things. So a couple of different companies. Yeah. That's awesome. How many employees do you. It depends on the project and we'll work out. But, but generally we have about 15. So some things we're working on, we have as little as five or six in our company on it, but a mass capacity for us [00:05:00] is currently 15.

[00:05:01] Yeah, that's it. That's a lot of people to manage this, for sure. So, well, I know you've had a lot of good moments over the years. What's been one of your favorite moments. A few favorite moments was when I landed my first song or record. 22, 23 years ago, hearing a cyro on the radio for the first time.

[00:05:17] That was a really mind blowing moment. And then also going to that artist concert and seeing them perform the song I'd written in my bedroom. That's gotta be surreal. Yeah. Like just to watch her crowd singing long and engaging with a song that I wrote, my bedroom was a crazy. And then you know, I guess like, you know, when I first started really getting in with record labels, that was exciting.

[00:05:43] Like just walking into a record label buildings 23 years ago was pretty mind blowing I'm in New York city. And then I guess the first few record deals that I was a part of. I would say the first, really big record [00:06:00] deal I got was pretty unbelievable. Like just getting to me presidents, the labels, and, you know, seeing on their faces that they felt like they needed us more than we needed them was was something I'd never thought.

[00:06:14] When I first started walking labels, I would ever see that moment. So I would say that those are some of my favorites. Yeah. And I know there's been a lot of tough moments when you're managing artists, developing them. Maybe take us back to a tougher moment. And what were some of the things you learned through that?

[00:06:29] I think, I mean, there have been a lot of tough moments. Some, you know, have been mistakes I've made along the way. And some have been mistakes that people made to me along the way. But, but I would say in general, What's been tough, which has been moments has just been, like, I found it really, really hard for me personally.

[00:06:51] To get good at this. And to really understand all the different blind spots and little nuances to the industry, [00:07:00] it took me a really long time to get good at it. I do think sometimes I can be a little bit of a slow learner. I think that definitely had something to do with it, but it's just such a complex industry and complex business that to understand all the facets of it.

[00:07:16] Get, you know, decent at it or good at it. You know, it took me a really, really long time. So I think just having many years where, you know, I, I guess the term is like failing forward, you know, th th th that was not fun to go through. Cause I've always wanted to be amazing. And, you know, and moments like you can convince yourself that you are really good at what you're doing, but then you realize you have a blind spot and that's a very humbling moment.

[00:07:42] So I think that that's probably been collectively the toughest part. Yeah. And you say being, becoming good at it? Most of our listeners, if they have a manager it's maybe someone who's just starting out or they have a full-time job and they're a part-time manager or parents. Relative or something like that.

[00:07:59] What are some of the [00:08:00] characteristics of a good manager and for the people listening, what should they be on the lookout or try to encourage their managers to do for them? Really, really, really good question. I think first to be a good manager, I feel that you have to be very, very level-headed and I think you have to be very emotionally.

[00:08:21] And very emotionally predictable. And my dad taught me something when I was younger. It's one of the best lessons he ever taught me, but he said to me, he's like, Jason, always remember in business. If you raise your voice at somebody, if you call somebody a name, you call somebody a bad word. Or if in general you lose your composure.

[00:08:42] Even if they've done something wrong to you, you immediately become the. And all the weight shifts onto you. And so that's stuck with me. So I can't say I've always been good at this, but these days, you know, I don't really react to [00:09:00] things. I like to take things in marinate on them and make sure that I'm responding to things in a very even keeled level way, because when you're representing other people, like you have to be careful because, you know, if you don't respond well to something or get emotional, you know, you're poorly representing who you're representing and that, and that, and that shows on them, you know?

[00:09:21] And I think even like when you're representing somebody even going, as far as. Making sure that you have really strong character internally. Like, you know, are, are you representing somebody at, at a coffee table with somebody in the business and you're using bad language or, you know, unprofessional language.

[00:09:40] I mean, th that, you know, when, when you're representing somebody, that people meet you, when they look at you, they see the artist. You're representing the artists. So I think that's one thing. I think also as a manager being very, very responsive to messages is a big one. I think that the biggest complaint [00:10:00] I hear throughout the music industry from record labels or booking agents, is that managers can sometimes be slow to respond.

[00:10:06] So I think being very responsive when somebody is trying to reach. Is a really strong attribute as a manager. It's a huge one. And I think that's one thing that can surprise people in the industry about you is if you're very responsive. And then I think just being, not being afraid to be proactive for your artists.

[00:10:26] I mean, sometimes it's obvious that there's just not a door that you're going to be able to get open for your artists. And, you know, in that case, trying to beat your head against the door is probably not the best use of your time, but. It, you know, if, you know, something's a possibility, you know, not being afraid to be persistent and pushing it along and reminding people and, you know, very lovingly staying up people to make sure that that opportunity has a real chance for your artists.

[00:10:54] And I think, you know, is good too. And for artists who are in their journey there, they're [00:11:00] doing this, they're playing shows they're out there. When do you think is a good time for them to get a manager or have someone on board to help in that capacity? It probably just depends who that manager is. I mean, most managers at a higher level are not going to want to work with an artist that's not bringing in real income.

[00:11:20] Most major managers are going to want. To manage somebody that's already signed in the industry already making income that they can commission off of. So I would say that that's tricky. I don't have a lot of experience with like local managers or, you know, like, I do know some people like, like there's one guy that works on our team that I met through an independent artist once.

[00:11:45] And he used to like book a lot of shows for that artist and their local community. You do hear about these people in local communities every once in a while that are like booking shows for artists are really getting out there and grinding for [00:12:00] artists. So I think that's incredible, but yeah, as far as like major managers, I mean, it's definitely, it's pretty hard to land somebody that has.

[00:12:11] A lot of, you know, experience and a lot of contacts. Yeah. Let's speak on that context. Cause it does feel like from what I've seen, a good manager can sort of unlock those conversations. It doesn't mean that they can completely move an artist or a band forward, but what is the role of having good contacts play for a good manager and how that helps and impacts of band or an artist for me?

[00:12:35] Having great contacts. If the artist is truly ready to go for whatever that next step is for them, whether it's a tour or getting record label interest or whatever it is, if you have the right contacts and that artist is truly ready. You know, you can, you can make something happen instantly because that artist is so ready that the door is gonna open.

[00:12:58] And that artist is going to [00:13:00] really walk in the room and win it over, which is something that is mandatory because managers can make things happen unless artists can win over rooms that they walk into. But I think also having the right contacts can help identify areas where maybe your artist isn't fully ready.

[00:13:20] You know, I've had situations where I think, Hey, I'm going to be able to get this artist a record deal. Or, you know, when they start pitching, you know, pinching the artists around and I get some, like, And I don't want to say negative feedback or maybe I'll get some constructive feedback or, Hey, I'm not sure about the artists because of this.

[00:13:38] And then you realize whatever that this is, whatever it is. Okay. Like we need to work on that, like that area, like that was just identified by somebody as being a weak spot. So we need to end. So. You know, I think like you can sit in your own kitchen and cook meals and think that you just created the best meal ever, but if you present it to five of the [00:14:00] world's top chefs, they might say, well, actually, If I made this dish, I would have done it more like this and this dish is actually lacking this.

[00:14:09] And, but the other things you did, you nailed, it just needs more of this. And it's like, okay, well, I'm going to go back and fix this. And then, then I'm going to, I'm not going to come back to anybody until I've got that thing fixed. And sometimes fixing, it could be like being a stronger vocalist. It could be the artist doesn't seem like.

[00:14:28] Confidence or, you know, maybe the songs are right. Maybe the direction musically needs to be tweaked. You know, some of those fixes could be super easy. Some of those fixes could be. A year of work, but at least you kind of know from decision-makers in the industry that can move something forward, whether it's their, and let's, let's kind of go there a little more specifically because you see a lot of artists and you've seen a lot of artists in those 23 years.

[00:14:56] Are there common threads of reasons you might walk away [00:15:00] as a manager and say, they're not quite ready, or in artists that you're already working with. Take them to a label like you mentioned earlier, and you hear the label say, what are, what are some of those threads that you've heard over and over again, that show that that artist is not ready for the next level in no particular order.

[00:15:16] But number one, there, their vocals aren't strong. Number two, the songs aren't good enough. Number three, they haven't fully nailed their direction musically yet, like really carving out a lane that they don't sound like anybody else, but yet, yet it's familiar. It could work on radio, but they sound unique to the marketplace.

[00:15:41] They. Aren't a good listener. They don't seem coachable. They walk in the room, timid or shy. They don't know how to walk in a room and light it up. But like not overselling themselves, but selling themselves where it doesn't feel like they're selling themselves. [00:16:00] And I, and even like in the studio, I would say like, which is vocals, but here's one thing that same live or in a room, but it's another thing to be a true artist, like on a microphone and a recording.

[00:16:11] So. And like, I've seen artists that are like really passionate live and they bring a lot of energy live, but then you put them behind a studio mic and it feels generic or it's lacking emotion. Doesn't translate. I mean, those are different things. No, that's great. That's great advice. And I think there's a lot of takeaways in there for people listening.

[00:16:33] In the, in the 23 years you've been working in this business, you've seen the role of a label. Change it. Good bit. What do you feel like the role is for small independent artists who are on the rise right now? Like the artist's role or the label's role. Cause I know that, you know, I feel like in the nineties when I was a kid, you know, you kind of looked at a light bulb is like, Hey, they're going to solve everything.

[00:16:55] All of my problems are going to go away. If I get signed or something like that, I feel like that's [00:17:00] shifted a little bit today and maybe I'm wrong. I, I didn't get into the music industry until 19 98, 99. You know, and that was the beginning for me. So it was right before 2000. So, you know, I, I obviously heard a lot of stories from people I work with in the business, and it doesn't seem like that much has changed, but I mean, like my view of labels from working with labels for all these years is I just, you know, I think if you're looking to a label to figure out who you are as an artist, Or figure out how to come up with great song ideas or really help you figure out your vision, just visually, like what you look like, how you dress your hair, you know, what is the direction of the songs?

[00:17:52] Really having unique songs, like unique titles, unique concepts, you know, I think if you. Going [00:18:00] to a label for a vision artistically, I think more times than not, you're going to be let down and disappointed. Is it simply not what they should be doing? I mean, maybe they can help a little bit with that, but I always tell people, like, if you walk into an art gallery and you think that they're going to paint for you.

[00:18:19] Like, you're going to be really disappointed because the art galleries should not be painting. Wow. What a good example. Yeah. Like the art galleries should be promoting in marketing artists, art. So, and you, and you should be able to, you know, if you're really ready to go and have a career, you should be able to on some level, walk in with art and, and, and have that art be compelling enough that people want to do a deal with you.

[00:18:42] So You know, if you truly want to be like a Picasso or a Monet or a Beethoven or Mozart, or like, like you really need to be the artist and. It doesn't mean that it has to be like crazy left of center. It just means that like, if you're a Monet, like you got to pay better [00:19:00] flowers and landscapes than anybody else that they're going to see.

[00:19:02] If you're, if you're a Picasso, you need to paint the most unique left of center things and have it still be commercial. But I think, you know, labels are just absolutely amazing, like mindblowing, if you can get them the right product as an artist, I mean, they're truly geniuses at what they do. Like branding ideas, marketing ideas, relationships, they have to try to pour gasoline on things, relationships that radio stations, relationship was streaming platforms.

[00:19:32] Like, I mean, th they, they, you know, all kinds of, you know, brand relationships they have, it's kind of like shark tank. Like if you're expecting mark Cuban to make your product. You're going to be disappointed, but he can pour gasoline on the right products. So I think, I think, you know, the genius of labels is really, if you, as an artist can get to the right product, doesn't mean that they can't assist with it or help, but that has to be figured out [00:20:00] more on the artist side than the label.

[00:20:02] And I think that's why so many artists fail on labels because they, they don't have it figured out and they probably get signed a little too early. And you know, maybe they have a catchy song it's so hard for labels to find anything that even sounds good enough or feels strong enough that often labels are just left to sign with whatever the best thing that they could find is.

[00:20:25] And like somebody said to me once. The many, many years ago, they said, Jason, do you know why there's not been another guns and roses? And I said, I don't know why. And they said, because there's not another principle roses, like it's literally does not exist. It's not that the labels haven't found them or haven't discovered them.

[00:20:45] It's literally like, it is not there. I don't think a lot of times you look at the generic stuff that comes out on the radio or generic stuff that labels are signing is because. They can't find anything better. And you know, the second you try to create art with [00:21:00] somebody. You don't have a real deal artist, man.

[00:21:03] What good perspective, Jason? I want to hit you with a few rapid fire questions. As we close up our town starting with, what do you feel like separates the artists who are successful from those who fail or just give up? I mean, obviously part of it is perseverance. A lot of artists do quit too early.

[00:21:21] Some of it is. Coachability, you know, some artists are really very coachable. Some artists are not, I think being really smart is helpful. And then, you know, I think some artists work hard enough on their craft of singing and performing and playing an instrument or whatever it is. And then I think other artists don't work hard enough.

[00:21:45] And then if the artist does get the right team around. You know, the art form at any business as any entrepreneur is, you know, learning. Having good instincts for when to listen to your team [00:22:00] and when not to listen to your team, knowing what is a good idea versus what's not a good idea. Like I, I heard an interview once with Larry Rudolph.

[00:22:08] It was pretty Spears as long time manager. And they said they asked Larry, and this is so accurate to what it's been like for me. But they asked Larry they're like, you know, what is it like managing Britney Spears? Like, what is the relationship been like? And he goes, You know, it's, it's just been a 20 year non.

[00:22:28] Back and forth conversation. Like all we do is have dialogue and we just, we throw ideas at each other. And sometimes I have a good idea. She can recognize it. Sometimes I have a bad idea and she recognizes it. Sometimes she has a good idea and I can recognize it. Sometimes she has a bad day. And I can recognize it.

[00:22:47] He's like, it's just this ongoing conversation and ongoing us bouncing ideas off of each other. And us being able to recognize each other's good or bad ideas. And and th th that's th that's pretty [00:23:00] much been my experience working with artists that have had success. Whereas other artists I work with that don't have success.

[00:23:06] This isn't the only thing, but this is. Is, you know, sometimes the artist has a bad idea and I recognize it and they don't recognize that it's still a bad idea, you know, and you just got to fight them every step of the way to not destroy their chances with that ideas. So I think, you know, there, there are certain artists probably like any business that have great instincts for this.

[00:23:30] And then other artists just. So those are some of the things I've seen in, in the next three to five years. Pull out your magic eight ball for us a little bit. What do you see kind of coming down that people should keep their eye on. And what has you excited about the music industry? Well, I've definitely noticed as of recently that Ash goes, CDs have been really dipping in sales.

[00:23:53] So it's the first time I've really seen it where CD sales at shows for artists are really [00:24:00] dropping. So I do think. Less CDs and new cars and, you know, probably people upgrading their cars every so often to cars that don't STD and players in it. I do, I do see for the first time ever that when you're an artist and you have music at shows to sell that it's selling less, but, and I was always really concerned about that because I was like, The number one thing people want to buy usually at shows is the CD or the music.

[00:24:30] And so like if people don't buy the music, like what, what are these artists going to sell at shows? And like t-shirts and things like that. I've always been secondary to people wanting to buy the CD. So I thought that that was going to be a huge loss or a huge gap, but I've noticed lately. The artists that I'm working with, that haven't had CDs at shows they're just selling double the t-shirts.

[00:24:57] So I do think that, you know, the CD is [00:25:00] going to disappear. Probably in the next few years. And I think it's just gonna turn into, you know, just a lot more merchandise sales, like t-shirts and hats and bracelets and things like that. So I think it will go fully streaming or iTunes or whatever, besides that.

[00:25:20] I mean, I don't really, you know, I do see that some radio stations are trying to become more app savvy and like trying to prepare for like, Radio is no longer in cars anymore one day, but I don't know. Radio is such a massive driver that I just, I have a feeling it's going to be a long time before you see radio stations going here.

[00:25:41] Yeah. And Jason, where can people find out more about you and your companies? Well, w we have, you know, our, the, when she made a, could put it in the write up, but, you know, we have 1, 1 7 w we have a website for that. We have noble management, we have one website for that, and those would be the two main places today.

[00:25:58] Jason, thanks so much for your time. Thank [00:26:00] you. Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for listening to another episode of the blue sky podcast. Have a great day, everyone.