Building Your Artist Brand with Katie Zaccardi

Casey Combest: Hey everyone and welcome to the Blue Sky Studios Podcast. I'm here today with Katie Zaccardi.. Katie, thank you so much for meeting with me today.

Katie Zaccardi: Thank you so much for having me.

Casey Combest: Absolutely. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself what you do and how you're gonna help 'em today.

Katie Zaccardi: Yeah, so I'm Katie. I describe myself as a strategy and mindset coach for musicians. , I'm a musician myself, and after doing the whole indie artist thing and working in the corporate side of the music industry, including being in music publishing for several years, I just wanted to do something different. And I knew I wanted to help musicians in a more intimate capacity.

And I also knew that I wanted to work for myself, and not be in like the, that corporate side of. So I started my business coaching musicians. I actually started as a wellness coach, but quickly transitioned to really incorporate a very holistic look of all the things that I love to teach, and I know so many of my clients love to learn, and that is really focusing on strategy and mindset.

Holistically with a focus on branding, social media growth organically and monetizing. So making money from music, whether it's launching a patron or coaching, a teaching offer, or anything else that really feels in alignment with you to be able to make money online as a musician. So that's what I focus on and that's a big part of what I teach on

Casey Combest: and talk about.

Awesome. As you guys can tell, we've got a great show ahead of us today. I think it'd be fun to start here, Katie, if that's okay. You've kind of worked inside the music business, I feel like in a minor music city like Jackson, Mississippi where there's not a ton of industry jobs. What's something that might surprise people about working in the industry as you're nine to five?

Katie Zaccardi: Ooh, that might surprise people. Well, I guess it depends on where you're coming from or, or how much you've- you've experienced so far in the music industry, I've found that like every city seems to be different in terms of what they focus on.

New York is, which is where I'm originally from and where I worked in music publishing is like very big. And it has these like pockets of community and connection, but it's also very like corporate focused. But I think that even though that's the case, there's a lot of very like casual work cultures. My experience working for a smaller publisher was really great. I mean, ultimately I didn't wanna pursue music publishing as a career, but I really loved the company I was with and you're able to kind of like go to work very casually, you know, not have to dress up. And I think that's what people expect from music. But something that I really liked about working in music in that aspect was that you were able to, like, have a little bit more flexibility with the things that you were doing. But, I also think on the flip side, it depends on the company you're with. Because some people who I know who are working in music, like they're just expected to be out all the time or go to shows all the time, they're out late all the time.

And for me, that's part of the reason why I left too, is because I just didn't wanna be held to that expectation. I need my sleep. I really value staying well. And so I think that that's something that you wanna look out when you're joining the music industry is like uphold your boundaries. Don't be afraid to like set boundaries and know what you, what your limits are, because I think it's really easy to fall into this culture of like, "You love it, so therefore you're just gonna burn yourself out doing it."

And I really encourage people to not get caught in that trap. Like you can still have a job and be very successful at your job without saying yes to every single thing and completely burning yourself out. But it's up to you to really uphold those boundaries because if nobody knows your boundaries, Then how can you expect people to honor them?

Casey Combest: Great quote there, Katie. If no one knows your boundaries, how can you expect them to uphold 'em? Great quote. Katie, let's get into your area of expertise. Talk to us about when you're working with an artist, what's usually the first thing you address?

Katie Zaccardi: Yeah. Well, obviously every single artist comes from a different place, and it's kind of funny that you ask that question because a lot of people may not be at the beginning of their career. They might be a couple years in or have already released music, but they were missing certain foundational pieces. So, we kind of have to like go back and fill in the blank. So it really just kind of depends. But the basic track that I like to take my clients through is essentially starting with creating their brand and that includes, yes, their visual brand and maybe a logo, but honestly, that's really not the most important part. The most important part is the personal brand. Thinking about what your message is and what your mis- mission is as a musician. So that would be the first part. That's the foundational part.

Then thinking about growing your audience and social media strategies that you want to use to do that. Now, obviously when you're at the stage, you're probably also working. Writing a lot of music and maybe gigging, and as I said, a lot of times musicians have already released music without doing this work, and then they kind of go back and fill it.

But if you can, if you're starting from scratch, it is always good to have clarity on your brand and start building a fan base before you've even released music. Cuz then you have a fan base to actually release that music too. But if you've already released music, it's no big deal. It's never too late to start to build that foundation and then grow from there.

So that's usually where I start with musicians. And then from there, once they've had some music out and they're continuing to build that fan base and they have a solid fan base of engaged followers, that's when we introduce monetization. And so thinking about launching a Patreon. Some, some of my musicians also coach and teach already, so we might consider taking that online as a separate or related project, but that's the next focus and thinking about how can we make more money in your career and start to grow in that way.

Casey Combest: That's great. We definitely wanna talk about Patreon a little later. It's not something I know a ton about, so I'm anxious to ask you questions there. But let's stop and talk about mission for a moment. There's been several times over the last 10, 15 years where I've coached or faux managed artists, that kind of thing somewhat unsuccessfully.

And every time I, I try to start with that mission because for me, like. The business side of it is super interesting. So I've walked through, Hey, what's the mission of Blue Sky Studios? What are we about? What do we want to make a, a dent on the universe regarding, but when you really get granular with artists, a lot of times it's sort of hard to navigate that.

So, so help me out, Katie. How does an artist figure out their mission?

Katie Zaccardi: Yeah, it's a great question. So much so that I actually created a whole quiz about it because , I found, When you, you know, when talking to musicians, when talking to clients, okay, let's figure out your brand. Let's figure out what you stand for, what you wanna literally say in your social media.

It feels so hard to take like all of you, and then simplify it into a brand. So I created a quiz called the artist Brand DNA, which helps you find your archetype, your brand archetype as a musician, and there's six archetypes in there. And that's just like a fun thing to help you get started with honing in on your mission and your brand and what you really wanna consider, because yes, you are a musician because you like to write music or you like to sing and play guitar, and you wanna just. You know, whatever you're experiencing and however you're coping with the world, you put it into a song and then you put it out there into the world and you're not necessarily setting out when you do that to like, Change people's lives or impact people in this way, right? Like you're kind of doing it for you, and that's okay, but I always tell my clients, create for you, but market for your fans because nobody's gonna care unless they have a reason to care, right?

They don't know you. Maybe your friends and family do. Sure. But beyond that, people don't know who you are and they don't know your music. And even if your music's good, they want to know why it matters to them. So in thinking about what your mission is, it doesn't always have to be this very intense thing, right?

You write music for you, whatever that might look like. Maybe your, your mission really is just to help feel people, help people feel entertained. Like what are the archetypes that you might get in the quiz is the entertainer. You can think of people like Bo Burnham or Harry Styles and like they're just there to entertain and make people feel good.

That alone is a good enough mission, right? Maybe though you're really someone who is very passionate about certain. Movements like the mental health movement and you maybe you write a lot about mental health in your music and you like to talk about that on your platform. I call that the advocate archetype.

So that might be your mission, which is different, right? A little bit different. Now, it doesn't mean that you can't also entertain people or like be funny or have your own personality. But it's just really thinking about how you want people to feel when they walk away from your music, from your social media account, from your show. What impact do you want to have made on them and how do you want them to connect with you and with your music?

Casey Combest: Solid. Katie, I, I think my favorite quote was that create for you, but market for your audience. Solid. You got these one-liners down pat. Girl, good job. . .

Katie Zaccardi: (laughs) It's TikTok cuz I'm always on TikTok trying to, How can I like dilute this enough so that it's super quick and easy to understand. And I think that that is one of the, the biggest ones that I've come up with because a lot of the pushback that I hear from musicians, and when I say pushback, you know, I just mean conversations happening in my TikTok comments for the most part or in my dms is like, well, I don't wanna have to market or like, shouldn't the music be enough?

That's something I hear all the time. Shouldn't the music just be enough? Shouldn't the music speak for itself? I don't say this to like hurt anyone or to make it seem like your music isn't good enough, cuz that's not it. But when we just take an honest look at the landscape right now on social media, it's like if you're trying to grow on TikTok, you have two seconds to capture someone's attention. They don't know who you are. You have to make them care. So that's really the biggest, the biggest thing. And so that little kind of quote is something I came up with to help give people the validation, like create for you. You don't have to be a sellout, you don't have to. Try to create viral TikTok sounds.

It's not about that, but you do have to still market your art for the people who are gonna resonate with it, because if it doesn't, if you don't, it's not gonna get to them. And if it doesn't get to them, Nobody's gonna hear it.

Casey Combest: Yeah. Solid. Solid. I've, I've never thought about the peripheral benefit of TikTok, that it probably does help you condense your content into bite size pieces. That's awesome. So, let's, let's talk about Patreon a little bit. We've worked with several artists that have Patreons in some form or fashion. One, I, I think that's his sole income driver. For someone listening who doesn't know about Patreon, maybe give him like a 32nd snapshot of what it is and then talk to us. Sort of best practices or things that you've helped your artists grow their Patreons?

Katie Zaccardi: Sure. So in a snapshot, Patreon is basically a platform where you can host a fan club or membership for your fans. So you can set it up there, you can have multiple tiers, and your fans will use the platform to join the membership and you might host some of the perks that you deliver to them on that actual site.

For instance, if you're doing behind the scenes videos on YouTube, you can post the YouTube links within the Patreon. But you can also do other things like Zoom live concerts or discord channels that your fans get from being a part of the Patreon. So essentially having a Patreon allows you to set up membership fan club where your fans pay you each month month to month.

I mean, they can pay you yearly, but generally it's month to month to be a part of your inside circle and in return get certain deliverables for that. So that's what it looks like as far as how to best practices to really thrive. The process that I teach around Paton really has to do with properly launching your Patreon because a lot of musicians make the mistake. Creating a Patreon in one day and then putting it out there. Because the truth is that you can create your Patreon probably in a day. It doesn't take that much effort to like, make an account, put a photo up there, put some tears up and write a bio and throw it up online, you know, with the link, but,

What we're not considering is that your fans need to go through the buyer process and they need to really be warmed up to literally what a Patreon is because they might not know, and they're not gonna join something if they literally don't know what it is, but also what is in it for them and how it's going to benefit their life and what they're going to get out of it.

So that's what we wanna do in the launch process, and there's several steps within that from creating your initial offer idea and going out there and validating. As in doing market research and asking your fans, what do you want? You know, is this what you actually want? What do you wanna. Creating your final offer, creating your Patreon page, and then doing a whole warm up to your launch.

So you're creating social media content where you're really, really providing a lot of value. You're connecting with your audience and having conversations with them consistently, and you're wa letting them in on the process. So they're seeing that you're creating the Patreon. So when you put it out there, it's not like, oh, what is this?

It's like, oh, I knew this was coming, and I'm really excited to finally be able to join. So that's the biggest thing to consider when launching a Patreon. Because generally speaking, putting it together is the easy part, but getting your audience to buy is the harder part, and it takes a little bit of time sometimes for that to happen and to be successful at it. So that's what I focus on for the most part with my clients.

Casey Combest: And I imagine there's a lot of groundwork with actually maintaining that and making it a long-term revenue stream.

Katie Zaccardi: Absolutely. And that's why it's really important as well to really do your due diligence when you're creating it, because you don't wanna have perks or tiers that you can't deliver or that you get really burnt out on. You know, you throw out something together and you're over promising. I'm gonna do a Zoom call every week and I'm gonna, you know, do private, you know, letters to every person once a month. Like you don't wanna have to do these things that you then end up burnt out because it does take time, obviously, month after month to deliver on what you've promised. But it also takes time to continue to build it.

As with most memberships, you're gonna get an initial influx of people, but it's open all the time. And so you wanna make sure that you're putting in the work and you have the time and energy to be promoting it after that initial launch so that new people Or even just people who didn't buy the first time, who needed a little bit more time to process or potentially wanna join so that they have the opportunity to, and that you're constantly extending that invitation again, though without burning out. So it's kind of like a delicate balance of being consistent with it, but not overextending yourself or like, , you know, going all in for a week and then like disappearing for three weeks. , we don't want that.

Casey Combest: I've done that before where I make some type of reward or, or system like that and then a year or six months later I'm like, what was I thinking? I like made this bed and now I have to sleep in. It's awful . So yeah. Yeah. Don't want to write a ton of letters every week, then probably don't make that part of the process. So, Katie. Exactly. I. Talk about this a little bit in, in passing through our conversation in the last few minutes, and I, and part of me, I, I might not have gotten this right from the beginning, but is mental health kind of part of your coaching process or is that just something that you're conscious aware of?

Katie Zaccardi: So I would say more mindset. That's usually how I talk about it. I'm very passionate about mental health, but I'm not a therapist. I just try to create a, a small distinction there yet, but I do a lot of mindset based coaching and wellness based coaching, like I am a certified yoga teacher, so I have a lot of knowledge in that area.

And keeping people aware of what's going on, not just in the strategy world, is very important to me because a lot of my clients, when they come to me, they want the strategy, right? They wanna learn how to do something, but then during the process of that, What comes up is not always, I mean, obviously sometimes there's questions about strategy, but usually it's like I'm feeling really frustrated.

I feel like I put this out there and nobody cares about it, and now I'm feeling really down on myself, or I wanna be consistent, but I'm feeling really stressed out and I don't know if I have the time to do this, and I'm. Feeling burnt out from it, or I feel like I could be burnt out from it, or, you know, I put my Paton out there and I just like, don't know how to sell this without being sleazy.

I've just got like a huge mindset block about receiving money. Like those are the kinds of things that I really love to work through with clients because that's, that's the block, like, that's what's stopping you from really achieving what you wanna achieve. Most likely. You have the strategy or you have the tools to learn the strategy.

But it's the mindset and these sort of like mental and emotional obstacles that often come up that are the things that we need the most support with. Or, I mean, often they're the things that like we lack the most support with because there's no YouTube guru being like, here's how to, like overcome this mindset block when you're launching your Patreon.

So that's what I try to be for my clients, is that person that they can talk to and work through these things with alongside the strategy.

Casey Combest: Yeah, and it's oftentimes those blocks, and it's funny, like I'm not a counselor either, but a lot of times in the production seat when you're building a record for somebody or making a record for somebody, you sort of wind up in that seat where you are hearing them vent a little bit or kind of helping them work through it.

And yet, yeah, it is. It's so funny how a lot of times, and I've seen this in my own life, where this one block, if I can kind of turn the key on that or shift my paradigm a little bit, it really does unlock this new season of growth or new season of where we can go. So super exciting. I definitely resonate with what you're saying. So we're recording this fall 2022. What's a strategy or tactic that has you really excited for the coming year?

Katie Zaccardi: Ooh, that's a great question. Okay, let's see. I would say that right now I am just noticing a lot of shifts and changes in how people are consuming and buying in general in my own business.

And I think just as musicians as well, or as fans as well. So I think that one thing that I would keep in mind is that people nowadays are needing a. I would say longer and stronger nurture process before they do join something. I don't wanna say that there's like an oversaturation, but obviously the difference, for instance, if you're looking at TikTok or if you're looking at courses or just musicians out there, like there's more people on TikTok, no.

Then there used to be couple years ago, right? It doesn't mean that that's not possible for you, but I have found in my own business and with my clients, whenever they're trying to connect with fans or sell something, their fans are just needing a little bit more time to kind of process that buying decision before they take the jump.

So with that being said, the biggest thing that I'm really focusing on is that relationship building, and I think that getting in the dms with your fans or potential clients, if you also coach or. Is super important. That relationship building is super, super important. If you can do that in person at shows and take some time after shows to like really talk to the people who came, make sure that you do stay connected on social media.

After that, DM them again. Thank them like, these conversations are just really helpful to build that relationship and nurture your fans. And then I also think that taking your fans along the journey with you and making your wins feel like their wins. That's the biggest thing that I would focus on when it comes to growing an audience and then monetizing that audience as well. Because if you release an album or have a big gig or do a sponsorship deal with a brand that you always talk about, like if your audience is watching this journey and you're letting them in on the journey and making them feel excited and a part of it, they're gonna be equally as excited when that thing happens and they're going to actually take action and buy or join or.

Because they care and they wanna see the final product and they wanna sup, you know, support you in that journey. So those are kind of like vague trends, I guess. But those are the two biggest things that I'm really focusing on and looking out for moving into the rest of this year. That's

Casey Combest: awesome.

Would strongly suggest if you haven't read, they ask you. Have you heard of this book? No. It's great. Just went to a workshop a three hour workshop last week on it, and I'm almost done with the audio book. Incredible paradigm shift and basically chronically what's happened the last 10 to 20 years on buyer habits.

So yeah, strongly suggest, and if you're listening and you're kind of intrigued by this in some way they ask you answer. A great suggestion there for you guys. Well, Katie, thank you so much for sharing with us today. If someone's listening and they're like, Hey, I want Katie to help me. I want to move forward with my music.

Maybe they want some help on the strategy or I loved your what is your, your paradigm for the different archetypes? Like, that's awesome. If, if you're a little curious about that. Yeah. Where can they find you, Katie?

Katie Zaccardi: Yeah. So you can take the quiz, which is the artist brand DNA quiz, completely free assessment. At katiezaccardi.com/quiz. So that's a great place to start, totally for free. You'll find out what your archetype is. You can email me and I'll send you a private podcast episode that has more information about it. Great way to get started. But I also do have a multitude of ways that you can work with me.

The biggest way, especially based on the topics we talked about in this podcast, are gonna be the audience builder, which is my group coaching program That's, All on branding, social media, content creation so that you can create your brand and grow your fan base, and not just any fan base, but a fan base of fans who will buy from you.

So you can find that at katiezaccardi.com/the-audience-builder. And, if you DM me on Instagram at Katie's cardi, ask me how to get a discount on that and I'll send you a coupon code. But other than that, everything's on my website at katiezaccardi.com and I'm on Instagram at Katie Zaccardi and on TikTok Katie.Zaccardi couldn't get it without the dot on TikTok, but (laughs) those are the places that I'm hanging out the most.

Casey Combest: Awesome. Well, thanks again for your time, Katie.

Katie Zaccardi: Thank you for having me.

Casey Combest: Absolutely. And thank you guys for listening to another episode of the Blue Sky Studios podcast. Have a great day everyone.